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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Dec 4, 2007 7:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Hindsight is 20/20

Listening to http://www.archive.org/details/gd90-03-24.schoeps.wiley.11806.sbeok.shnf (the complete Dozin' At The Knick show, containing what is my personal favortie Loser...ever). This AUD source is just exemplary and really puts you "in the arena".
As I am listening, in addition to the fond memories that it always brings back of one of my favorite tour stops, I'm also thinking about "What If?".
After these shows, I never left a show again with the same feeling, with each time seeing them leaving me thinking more and more that they would never again reach the heights of the past. The culminated in my last shows, the 94 Arizona stop, where I left just feeling like I had seen a fading shadow of what had once been so amazing.
The "What If" question is really for those of you who had a similar experience. If you had the chance to make any one of the shows you saw as your last one, what would that have been? For me, it would have been these Knick shows. After this, all my experiences with the boys started to slide right along with Jerry's health and Brent's untimely departure. Now, while I did really enjoy the Boston Garden shows in 91, the Knick shows just blew me away, leaving me stunned by the power of the band. On the other hand, as I was leaving the final 94 Arizona show, I couldn't help but thinking of the Dead as being the Jim Rice of music. Just hanging on a little too long, tarnishing what had been a Hall Of Fame (should be, anyway)career. If I could go back and hand pick my last batch of shows, it would have been the Knick shows. The boys were firing on all cylinders and the vibe was incredible, and, I'm sorry, but for me, personally, as much as I like Bruce Hornsby and liked Vince (somewhat), the Brent-less Dead never gave me the same feeling. Now, while I NEVER had a bad time at a show, the feeling I had walking out of the Knick for the last time in 1990 would have been the perfect way of ending what had been a magical experience of seeing the boys live for many years. Kind of like ending on top. Now, it is important to remember that this is a highly subjective and personal opinion and I'm positive most of you will feel entirely different, for various reasons. But I'm curious for some feedback on this.

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Poster: swamprabbit Date: Dec 4, 2007 9:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

Ahhhh - another variation of it all went downhill after x date (this time in the form of a question). I'm pleased that many of you got to experience the glory years. Unfortunately some of us got on the bus late (Damn my parents for giving birth to my sister first!). My last show was 6/30/95 and I thorouhgly enjoyed it. Just keep this in mind. If the Dead had packed it in at the peak of their powers (1969, 1972, 1974, 1977, etc. - pick one)before the "scene got out of control" the Grateful Dead phenomenon as we know it would have been completely different, this site would probably not exist, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. So put that in your pipe and smoke it! For me it was all downhill after 8/9/95. Long live the Grateful Dead 1965-1995!

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Dec 4, 2007 9:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

Hey, didn't mean to rain on anyone's parade, that's why I made sure to point out that it was a personal thing and not a sweeping view on the Dead as a whole. This was just how I felt personally. I've got good friends who say that they loved every single show they saw and they loved the last show they saw as much as the first, and I respect that opinion. For those who got on the bus later, I know your perspective will be much different than mine. Neither is right or wrong. Just different.

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Poster: swamprabbit Date: Dec 4, 2007 9:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

No harm done - I just occasionally feel the need to stand up for the 1990s (otherwise no one else will). Perhaps I need to change my username to 90sDefender. All in good fun though. I do wonder how much of the "it all went downhill from here" vibe has to do with personal issues. What I mean by that is that when you attended your first Dead shows most folks were young and the experience (including the music) was new. Being surrounded by drug-crazed lunatics is kind of exciting when you are fresh out of high school. However, this begins to grow a little stale as you mature. You begin to pay a bit more attention to the seedy elements of the lot scene and attending a show comes to seem like more a more of a hassle. All of this impacts your experience with the music. I just wonder what role these personal transformations play in people's views of the Dead's musical evolution.

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Dec 4, 2007 11:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

swamprabbit: nothing ever went "downhill." The compass always points to Terrapin. However, I gravitated towards the Jerry Band and Huner solo-acoustic shows over the years. Unfortunatley Jerry only toured in California during 1994 otherwise I never would have stopped touring. Thankfully Hunter chose to carry the Torch both through creating his Archive on the web and hittin' the road.

This post means nothin',
=== AshesRising


This post was modified by AshesRising on 2007-12-04 19:00:04

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Poster: daliguana Date: Dec 4, 2007 8:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

Well, I'm at that age where I didn't see my first show until '95. I was 25 and on my five-year anniversary with first wife. We grew up in South Dakota and there were never shows around us. I didn't even hear about the Grateful Dead until I got back from Brazil in '89. I immediately got into them upon hearing my first bootleg (Bonner Springs, KS from '89). So - my first show *was* my last show. Las Vegas '95. Truth to tell, I can't even remember much from the show - I was just so enthralled by the whole experience. They played Lucy In The Sky as an encore is about all I know. Even then, it may have been the next night's show (we stayed in parking lot w/ no tix to the last night of the run). "Shoeless, I wished for a pair of shoes until I met a man with no feet." I'm just glad I made it to one. Funny thing is, I've never even listened to that show in all the years of trading shows. I'd have loved to be at any of the shows in, say, 84 before the scene got too much. By '95, as I'm sure you all know, the parking lot scene was pretty scary, to say the least. But, still fun!

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Poster: Tito&Smokey Date: Dec 4, 2007 8:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

Stayed in the parking lot in vegas 95? dude,the tickets were basically free there.They were blowing in the wind.I was trying to sell a ticket to some hippy scumbag and he was crying that hes a real head and he deserves it for free.Just to spite that motherfucker i had him watch me go into the show and eat the ticket rather than giving it to his lazy chump ass for for free.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Dec 4, 2007 8:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

boy tito! thinking about that hippy scumbag and you eating the ticket was awesome. Have ever had the fun of beating a homeless person then urinating on them?
Anger and hate -nice! Such positive vibes to enchance your life, I really admire you.

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Dec 4, 2007 8:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

boy, you really showed him, tito. such a big man you are!

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Poster: jackstraw86 Date: Dec 4, 2007 9:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

Although my last show was Vegas 95, I felt the last great show I saw was 11-15-87 at Long Beach. It was sort of a short show, but the boys were firing on all cylinders the entire show. I feel that I spent the next 8 years chasing that energy. Although there were great moments at many shows after that, that November 87 show was the peak for me. The post-Brent lineup just didn’t have the same spark. They jumped the shark in the Fall of 90 with Bruce, IMO. Bruce is a fine musician, nothing against him at all, but the energy just wasn’t the same and I felt the band was chasing something that they never would achieve again. I got on the bus in 79 and many would say that I had already missed the best; they might consider anything after the hiatus a different band. Indeed they were different and that might be true, but the boys continued to put on raging shows for years after Fall ’74. I feel very fortunate to have experienced the 16 years of shows I did. I guess what’s important is that everyone at some point of seeing them got at least a glimpse of the light.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Dec 4, 2007 10:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

"...what’s important is that everyone at some point of seeing them got at least a glimpse of the light"

Couldn't have said it better.

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Poster: swamprabbit Date: Dec 4, 2007 11:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

Amen!

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Poster: Tito&Smokey Date: Dec 4, 2007 7:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

Now heres a guy that makes fun of me and looks down on me bacause im a big fan of modern Dead (inserting Touch of gray and Liberty jokes),yet his favorite show ever was in 90?interesting yet peculiar.
Ill take anything from fall tour 89 to be at,especially the brydan byrne show when they played "attics".im not a big Dark Star fan but it was pretty cool that night.

You gotta a problem with Jim Rice then you gotta problem with me.Jim Ed will always be the man.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Dec 4, 2007 8:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

1. I didn't say the Knick was my favorite show that I saw "EVER", I was just saying that it would have been a good ending point in their career...for me. As for my favorite show "EVER", that's a tough call. A strong contender would be the Richmond 85 show.

2. As for Jim Ed Rice, in my opinion he should should have been a first ballot hall of famer. But as for his career, having seen him throughout his career at Fenway, his final season was truly sad, showing him hanging on a little too long. But that in no way should take away from his greatness. Watching him and Dewey plan together was amazing.

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2007-12-04 16:23:49

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Poster: mcgannahan Date: Dec 4, 2007 8:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

hey tito, how's it goin, buddy? hope all is well!

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Dec 4, 2007 8:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

SDH: ...I must admit I feel almost the same as you. That Albany trifecta was something special. Boston Garden the following year on the 26th was The One --- well , The Last One -- for me: place was packed so I could no longer find refuge in my usual spot behind the stage; had to go to my assigned seat -- three rows in front of Jerry. "Attics of My Life," "Brokedown Palace," and "We Bid You Goodnight" was IT for me.

..and then there was that Jerry Band show in the Centrum: Nov. 1993 --- very special evening ---- watching Jerry enjoy interacting with the audience (not sold-out) that sang with him for almost the entire second set. Then seeing Jerry call out for an extra encore: "The Maker."

"All things must pass".....don't believe it -- the memories are priceless and still pulsate with life. Nice post -- Thank You,
--- AshesRising

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Poster: gdave Date: Dec 4, 2007 9:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

I know what you mean SDH. I was lucky enough to see a lot of very good shows in 89-91. I only saw a few shows in 92 and 93, and the ones I did see definitely left me disappointed, so do I wish I hung it up after 9-26-91? No way. The last show I saw was 10-5-94, and, while not the best show I ever saw, it was easily the best I had seen since 91. The second set opened with Midnight Hour, which I had never seen them do before, went into a great Cumberland, had one of the best Uncle John's I ever saw and a fantastic Standing on the Moon. I am so grateful that my final time seeing Jerry was on a night where he and the band really showed a lot of the magic that I experienced in the late Brent era.

By the way, the Deal to close the first set is great too.

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Poster: Ellis Van Sofa Date: Dec 4, 2007 8:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

i stopped going to shows in '88 but i did catch them one more time at the Bill Graham tribute in the park and i enjoyed that show quite a bit so i left them on a positive note (even if it was a memorial)

in hindsight i wish i had caught a few '89 and '91 shows.

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Dec 5, 2007 12:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

Boston Garden: 1991-09-26
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=60578A499E55C21F (18 videos)

Boston Garden: 1991-09-24
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=8004824BCE88242B
(21 videos)

--- AshesRising

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Poster: Scrim Date: Dec 4, 2007 2:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hindsight is 20/20

For me, Landover and Knickerbocker were the last great hurrah of the shows I went to.